Do you remember your first match as a referee?

To be honest, I don't remember my first game, just my first higher-class game, which I refereed in the sponsorship system at the Mommsenstadion. Of course, I was really excited that someone was watching for the first time and paying attention to how I whistled. I picked up Achim Wahl, who had been assigned to me as coach, from his home beforehand and drove there with him. And that's how it was: He didn't say anything before the game, he didn't say anything during the half-time break and he didn't say anything after the game. When he wanted to get out of the car on the way back, I asked him irritably if he would perhaps say something to me about the game. 'Yes', he said, 'That was good, you'll go your own way'.

A memorable match under your management was the friendly between Hertha and Union in the Olympic Stadium in 1990 to mark German reunification. What memories do you have of this extraordinary match?

It was total joy. You couldn't feel any hatred for the opponent on either side, there was actually a great sense of joy in the city, which then spilled over into the stadium. A funny personal memory: the game was sponsored by Deutsche Post at the time and I was a member of Post SV Berlin. And the whole event was a huge thing with lots of celebrities and everything was marketed in a big way. Then the CEO of Deutsche Post stood in front of me and my team and said a few nice words, and I said to him that I was a bit disappointed. 'Why?' he asked. 'Well,' I said, 'I belong to Post SV, they're the main sponsor here and we referees don't even get a present, no souvenir, nothing. He turned bright red, went out, came back five minutes later and then we all got an album with the postage stamps valid at the time. That was a great memory and the whole event in general was a great experience.

At the time, the fans from both camps stood together in the stadium in a friendly atmosphere. As a referee, can you speak of grateful conditions here or is it more of a classic derby atmosphere that makes such matches special for the referees?

I didn't want a derby atmosphere at this game. I wanted it to be an interesting game for the spectators. The rivalry developed on the pitch, there was even a Hertha player who was about to get a red card. The players definitely took it more seriously than the fans. They were just happy. Back then, there was a completely different bond than there is today. In the days of the Berlin Wall, a Union flag hung in the stadium at every Hertha game. Today you can already speak of a certain rivalry. When I was on the BFV presidium, I suggested that the game from back then should be relaunched, but the clubs didn't want that because of the rivalry that exists today.

There is a second extremely memorable game in your CV: in 1995, FC St. Pauli were promoted to the 1st Bundesliga with a 5-0 home win against FC Homburg at the Millerntor. Just three minutes before the end of the 90 minutes, the St. Pauli fans stormed the pitch after a misunderstood penalty whistle from you, which you subsequently promptly awarded as the final whistle. How should we imagine this whole situation?

We were already prepared at the time that things could get a bit turbulent. Homburg, who had already been relegated before the matchday, had already expressed the wish in the final minutes that I should please blow the whistle on time so that they could go straight to the dressing room when the fans stormed the pitch. From five minutes before the end of the game, the fences were climbed over and it became increasingly crowded on the edge of the pitch. I hardly blew the whistle so that no whistle would be misinterpreted. But then there was a crystal-clear penalty situation that I had to whistle, and the whistle had not yet completely stopped when the fans stormed onto the pitch. I then had the presence of mind to point away from the penalty spot in the direction of the dressing rooms, indicating the final whistle. My team and I then ran into the dressing rooms with the Homburgers, there were celebrations outside, the Pauli president did the caterpillar with the players, we referees also had a glass of champagne in the dressing room and after about 15 minutes the 2nd chairman of St. Pauli came in and suddenly said that the pitch had now been cleared and the game could continue. I told him that the game was over and that I had blown the whistle properly. My referee observer then also asked me. I showed him my watch, which I had simply left running for another three minutes in the dressing room, and said 'Look here, my watch has run out, it's definitive and the game is over'. Of course, you have to say that you couldn't do that nowadays. Back then, everyone was happy with the way it was solved. Today, everything is very precise and highly legal, so no one would believe that my watch had made a time jump. Afterwards, when we were still out and about in the Kiez, we were constantly asked by St. Pauli fans whether promotion was really certain. We told them that everything was in order and were handed a beer or two.

The highlight of the story was that I was invited to FC St. Pauli's 100th anniversary celebrations in 2010, where the promotion game was performed again in a theater. That's when I admitted for the first time in the stage program that perhaps the clock hadn't quite run out after all. At the event I also met the actor Axel Prahl, who is a big St. Pauli fan. I was standing with him and then a fan asked for a photo, Axel Prahl stood next to him and he suddenly said no, he wanted to take a photo with me and pressed his smartphone into Axel Prahl's hand. That was very funny. And I later visited Axel Prahl a few times with my referee buddies when he was playing with his band in Berlin. I also have a signed picture of him hanging on the wall at home, which I'm very proud of.

Even after your active time, you have remained loyal to refereeing in various voluntary roles. Why is it important to you to stay involved?

I was an active referee for a very long time, officiating matches in the 2nd Bundesliga and as an assistant in the 1st Bundesliga. It was a great time and even though you had to take it seriously, it was much more of a hobby back then than it is today. As a team, you would at least go out after the games, and you were often invited by the clubs. Highlights were a visit to FC Bayern's Oktoberfest tent or the Cannstatter Wasen at VfB Stuttgart. After this great time, I simply wanted to give something back to the refereeing profession. After a long time as head of the teaching community in Charlottenburg, I then became head referee at the BFV, then chief referee, chairman of the referee committee and am now on the council of elders.

Why would you recommend people interested in soccer to become a referee?

The way we get on with 22 people on the pitch and how everyone is usually happy afterwards really leaves its mark on you. For me, there was even a special interaction: I worked as a law enforcement officer, where you had to have a certain demeanor, and my two jobs had a positive influence on each other. My time as a referee also led to friendships that I wouldn't want to miss. When I still hear the young referees in the performance squad talking about the Easter training course, where referees from every national association come together, I realize that contacts and friendships are still being made that will last a long time. When I was involved in teaching and as chairman of the referee committee, I also supported numerous talented referees who have now made it to the highest divisions. Daniel Siebert, Lasse Koslowski, Robert Wessel, Philipp Vierock (coach), Max Burda, they were all trained during the time I was in charge and we still keep in touch, meet up for cold drinks and at events. And when I watch soccer, I always check to see if one of our Berlin people is there, and then we talk about the games afterwards and discuss individual decisions. That's when real friendships developed. And even today, it's still nice to be able to say: 'You gave him a tip' when I see someone I've watched in the youth section whistle in the elite section.

Thank you for the interesting interview, Bodo!